Ragnarok

Posted by Eden on 21.01.01 00:00

There has been some debate as to whether or not the Last Battle will truly be the LAST battle or if it will merely be A battle that happens again and again on the Wheel of Time. I just thought I would throw in a little something that isn't in any way meant to be proof either way, but just a little something to mull over in your minds. Considering Jordan's reliance on Norse mythology for some of his plot lines and character bases, I would not at all be surprised to find the Last Battle to be partially based off of the Ragnarok (the Norse Armageddon.) Ragnarok is a battle in which pretty much every major (and almost all of the minor) characters die at each other's hands. The good, the bad, and the ugly all go down for the count when Ragnarok comes rolling around. However, all is not lost because as the battles rage and the Earth is destroyed, then also the world is reborn and becomes just what it was in the beginning. So I guess that if Jordan wants to have a Norse end to the Last Battle then it can't be the just the Last Battle but also the recreation of the universe. Very wheel-like.

wotmania says: Hmmmmm... I think I have Norse Mythology 101 next semester at school. Maybe not... My knowledge of Norse mythology is limited (pretty much what people have posted here), but this is entirely possible. It is clear that Jordan pulls ideas from a lot of different places, and maybe this is one of them. Not much else I can say on this one. Good work!


Comments

Very Interesting

Posted by Tenma Ishamel on 10.08.01 04:46
I like it. And let us not forget that in norse mythology, Ragnorok is brought about by............GASP.......A Dragon!!

I like it

Posted by nebhead on 19.11.01 06:24
I think that this is a good idea, especially because it solves the problem of the DO's prison needing to be whole again, without a patch, cos if the wheel is 'reborn', then it would be made as it was at the start of the wheel, with the DO safely locked up.


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mostly insignificant point dispute

Posted by Lord_Foul on 22.01.02 07:21
after the end of the world in Germanic Mythology (as it technically should be called, although Norse is the most known variant) the world is not exactly reborn as it was.

what happens is that one of the Aesir (one of the 2 sets of Germanic gods), Baldur, who was killed (directly or indirectly, I cannot remember which) by Loki (whom I feel is very similar to Padain Fain) is reborn. Baldur was a peace loving god whom the other gods so revered that they gave him protection from almost all forms of attack, Loki still got him though, and built for him an eden-like realm.

anyway, when Baldur is reborn, along with a lot of the minor gods of Germanic mythology, he creates a paradise. This is possible because there are no more Giants and Dwarves nor is Loki (who was waiting for the end of the world and the beginning of chaos so that he could be the god above all other gods) around. All this means that the gods and humans are untainted by greed and desire. It is a simple world now.

and finally,....I wonder if I actually disputed anything that was said.

but anyway, this is all possible because of the world-tree Yggdrasil (sp?) which doesn't seem to be terribly bothered by Ragnarok and the giants and gods fighting.

hmm?



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Wheel Turns

Posted by GoodMorning on 13.09.02 19:49
Now.....if i remember from my 'children's norse mythology' (actually it was D'aulaire's), After ragnarok, a new race was born, out of an elder and an ash tree. This race started out living in caves, then progressed into what i see as a feudal-sistem-time, with a ot of mead, etc. I see this as the birth of humans, and much more plausible than the God-created-all bs. Any ways, the wheel of time would turn through TG into the creation of humans.
comments, anyone? =

Ragnarok

Posted by albo88 on 01.01.03 03:13
The following is a section from a mythological encyclopedia, the stuff in brackets was inserted by me to show relation to the Wheel of TIme:
"Ragnarok was the preordained doom of the gods(The Last Battle), and the climax of the cosmic drama. The seeds of doom were sown at the dawn of time when the world and its first creatures emerged from the violent extremes of ice and fire(saidin & saidar???) Inherently fragile, the universe was beset by forces of destruction and flawed from the outset.(!!!) THe inevitable climax was precipitated by a series of disasters. Loki, a catalyst of evil, spawned three fearsome monsters(Myrdrall, Trollocs, Dreadlords??) against whom the gods were ultimately powerless. COnsumed with hate, Loki went on to slay Balder, symbol of goodness and beauty. Beyond Asgard, the enmity of the hostile giants gathered momentum until, at Ragnarok, all the world's destructive forces burst forth in cataclysmic disaster.(This sounds more like the Breaking) In one hopeful version, some gods survive and the earth emerges fresh and green, purged by flood and fire."
ALso, other stuff ive found about mythilogy that parrallel wot,
Jormunhand, the serpent son of Loki, grew so long that he encircled the earth and is often depicted biting his tail(the great serpent?)
Lif, and Lifthrasir were the man and woman who hid in the cosmic ash tree Yggdrasil and destined to survive Ragnorok and repopulate the world.
JOrdan probably also uses celtic mythology to a certain extent. THe queen Tigraine in the wheel of time probably comes from Igraine, King Arthur's mother. Uther Pendragon probably became King Artur Hawking Paendragon (sp??) and Galad and Gawyn come from Galahad and Gawain, knights of the round table