Mat Could Still Be Hawkwing

Posted by Mashadarman on 19.01.01 00:00

When Mat was hung in Rhuidean he was put on the brink of death. This may have been enough for the Wheel to spin out Hawkwing. It is at this point in the series when Mat develops his amazing general abilities and his ta’veren-ess seems to be on a whole lot more. And, Hawkwing has not appeared in Tel’aran’rhiod since the Falme episode anyway. Mat is Hawkwing reborn, or at least partially reborn.

This also presents a way for Olver to be Gaidal Cain reborn. Olver’s parents were killed by the Shaido in Cairhien, but what if Olver was also mortally wounded. Cain could have been spun out and reborn into Olver. Having a new soul would have definitely revived him. This would give the Wheel a place to put Cain and have Birgitte find him.

wotmania says: Hmmmm... Why would Mat being on the brink of death be enough to spin out Hawkwing? If Mat was Hawkwing reborn, he would have been that way since birth. The same more or less goes for Olver. My point is, I think the heroes are reborn, not inserted into someone’s body after they have been alive for a while.

Pento McGreno says: And now you know why I never posted any theories in my early days. They can come back to haunt me. Know the feeling, Mashy?


But that contradicts your earlier evidence...

Posted by Murgen on 02.04.01 00:00
If Mat were Hawkwing (or Olver Gaidal Cain), you're getting much of your evidence from prior sources. Like Mat using the old tongue in many instances, or his odd memories. However, if he wasn't Hawkwing until AFTER the Rhuidean incident, then none of that matters. Likewise, for Olver, if he wasn't Gaidal Cain until he almost died, then his appearance and age don't matter.

Besides, I don't like the idea of skinwalkers (a soul taking over someone else's body.)

Look to the foxes

Posted by Call_me_Tim on 01.06.01 08:51
Mat's ancient memories aren't evidence of another personality inhabiting Mat ala LTT with Rand. In Mat's unbridled ignorance with the Eelfinn, not knowing that they grant requests instead of answering questions, he wished for the holes in his life and memory to be filled in, and the Fox-folk said "Done". The holes in his brain caused by his time cursed with the Shadar Logoth dagger were filled in with the greatest military memories of the last three millenia.

Making the comparison, Birgitte says that in past lives she doesn't know she's tied to the wheel while living the life, nor have any memories of past lives, only when she's between lives in T'A'R. She also says shes born into each new life, not deposited into an existing person.


Call me Tim


Posted by GokuFuture on 18.08.01 23:30
of course olver is cain.... that's obvious. he was born cain.
-cain was always ugly. olver is ugly
-cain was always first. he was this time, too.
-it's SO OBVIOUS!!!!! lol.

the T'A'R angle

Posted by errantrogue on 03.01.02 15:22
is very fuzzy for me... Hawkwing wasnt seen in the dreamworld at all, there is no mention of him by brigette, and none of the travels who arent heros have seen his likeness... but there are precepts correct? the heros arent supposed to show themselves... brigette was seen only because she wanted to be, and gaidal's shadow (or glimpse out of the corner of our dreamwalker's eyes) were seen perhaps only because of birgette's presence...

while i will go along with gaidal's rebirth in the boy, i must go with a negative on Mat being hawkwing reborn

Can you see the line where the water ends?
Draws itself off into oblivion...

No your Wrong

Posted by xxdec21xx on 22.01.02 23:33
Mat was a general for Hawkwing and not Hawkwing himself. He remembers parts of that even though i cant recall teh page numbers plus (this part really gets me ) mat sounded the horn and Hawkwing was one of the heros. So how can Mat be Hawkwing reborn if Mat was there when Hawkwing came back from the Horn. And when Gaidal Cain gets pulled from T'a'R Birgette said that she would go soon too but thats besid ehte point the truth is if they are tied to the wheel through the horn then how do they get called to the horn when they are alive. Its cause they dont get called when they are alive they go on with there lives until they do something to become tied to the wheel again.

A comment from Thom

Posted by Deil on 01.07.02 20:33
One comment supporting this theroy comes from Thom in tEotW when Rand and Perrin say that Mat might be Aemon reborn, Thom tells them that it isn't a joking matter and that souls can take over a body. So RJ has put this in the books at some stage.