Gotta Be Moridin

Posted by Jonclore on 22.01.01 00:00

Okay, now this one is pretty clear cut for me. The wanderer pretty well matches descriptions given of Moridin both before and after the incident. Plus he seems to have in-depth knowledge of the way that Sammael thinks, which says to me that he must be someone from the Age of Legends, or a reincarnation of one. Let’s assume Ishamael for simplicity. Plus Moridin was a master of sha’rah, and there is a comment about the fisher, who can be controlled by both players in the game. This explains the wanderer's "plans" for Rand perfectly. And then there is the final point that Rand couldn’t feel him channeling balefire. My guess is the True Power, which Moridin doesn’t hesitate to use. Thus I conclude that the wanderer in Shadar Logoth is Moridin.

wotmania says: Now that is some solid thinking. Of course the fact that you agree with my view on the subject probably helps... I certainly think the wanderer was Moridin, but there are certainly good points to be made for other folks who might have been in Shadar Logoth that night.


The not sensing balefire theory

Posted by Lord Nazh on 15.04.01 00:00
Everyone seems convinced that it is morishy as the wanderer and that the true sorce was used because he couldn't sense it. I think its Lews Therin myself (and will probably be proven wrong) but, in the book (and no, I don't want to look them up right now ) it says (paraphrase) that when rand made the balefire the 'wanderer' produced another stream which converged into one and disappeared.. kinda like matter and anti-matter, they cancelled each other out and then rand's head rung like a bell had struck and yada yada yada (can't remember all of it and Im very tired). If it was the TP and morishy then why would the balefires converge? and the ringing and so on???

Don't cross the streams. It's bad.

Posted by Call_me_Tim on 04.06.01 07:29
Nowhere in the text does it say that the balefire streams 'converged and disappeared'. When the two streams contacted one another, it knocked them both off their feet, drove Saidin from Rand, and that ended the stream of balefire.

One of the comments of the wanderer is that he does not want to see Rand die today, but he will not kill Sammael for him. There isn't one syllable of the actual comment that shares any characteristics with Lew Therin. If LTT had the chance, he'd kill any Forsaken nearby. He's always grabbing for the Source when he senses one of them. The comment IS, however, perfectly in keeping with Moridin's stance as described in the prologue of PoD where the Sha'rah game is described. He believes he is playing both sides of the game. He doesn't want Rand dead yet, because he is so useful for sowing chaos. He does want Sammael, gone though, and here's why.

When Moridin is stalking Sammael and Graendal during their visits with Sevanna and the Shaido wise ones, he hears Sammael say to Graendal, "Remember who will be Nae'blis.". Obviously, Sammael is referring to himself, to get Graendal to stick with his plans, and we even get an internal POV from Graendal that Sammael wouldn't dare lie about such a thing. Well, if you are Moridin, the DO's numero uno bad guy, you don't want another Chosen punk claiming he is. Then it isn't long afterwards that Graendal gets a visit from Moridin, who tells her that the time of her going her own way is over. He couldn't have made that quite so convincing while the guy who first claimed to Graendal to be Nae'blis was still around.

I hated it when I was first faced with the possibility that the wanderer was Moridin. I wanted it to be someone who really planned to help Rand. But the evidence is otherwise.

Call me Tim

Why it was mordin and the true power plus a little on the taint

Posted by Mirror_of_The_Darkone on 08.06.01 00:42
After this incident Rand starts getting dizzy and his vision doubles when ever he touches Saidin... Like what happened when the streams of balefire touched. I think that the taint is the true power. This is how they go mad: Drawing to much of any of the powers can erase your mind correct? So if the men are drawing Saidin the little bit of the true power that the draw it through is not being used and slowly eats at thier mind. The effects of channeling the true power seem like a quick advanced version of the taint. I believe it was moghedian that said the the true poweer was more addictive and had worse results ust my thoughts


Posted by daidaishar on 05.09.01 18:45
why would mordin whant to kill Sammel? OK, narrow the competition and all that, but at the moment mordins position seems pretty steady. he might want to win over Rand by doing favors for him but you would think he would do so using a less valuable person than one of the forsaken

moridin it is!

Posted by Moriana on 27.12.01 05:44
Reason #1

Moridin, watching Sammael and Graendal squabble, was irritated, or at least unimpressed, with Sammael calling himself Nae'blis. There was also mention of his "truce" with Rand, which Moridin said was (paraphrasing here, can't find my copy of the book it was in ) 'as risky a clam as it was false'. He seemed slightly peeved, as the Forsaken were all seemingly instructed to leave Rand be, which Sammael was not. This could easily give Moridin the neccessary motive.

Reason #2

The true power. Rand not sensing the man channelling or feeling the tingle that would indicate a woman seems to be a pretty obvious clue to me. The fact that their streams of balefire intersected and blew both men back could lead to interesting hypotheses, or whatever the plural of that word is, on the true power, but I definitely think it was the TP.

Reason #3

The obvious reason. Moridin looks like the wanderer, whereas the wanderer didn't seem to fit the description of Lews Therin. Besides which, Rand knows what Lews Therin looks like, and would have recognized him.


Interesting thought...

Posted by Jonclore on 05.09.02 16:16
that the true power is the taint on the source. You'd think, though, that the male channellers would build up sa'a, though, from touching the True Power.

No way

Posted by namaste on 01.10.02 17:25
Nowhere do any of the forsaken or anybody else for that matter say that Moridin looks like Rand. And every body else who sees the Wanderer (as you all call him) says he looks like he could be rands older cousin.


Posted by 320rwekfpl on 17.01.03 01:12
Concerning the last comment... It seems to me that you're referring to Slayer, who is both Rands uncle and Lans cousin. Not otherwise. The Wanderer is definitly Moridin, who is described as looking as a borderlander in the mid-twenties... Nowhere like Rand...

I'm Jacks complete lack of suprise

One more subtle Moridin Reference.......

Posted by miah on 26.06.03 13:07
If you will remember, in aCoS, the Wanderer says something to the effect that if Rand fails a great deal of plans will have to be relaid. Now,tPoD, Moridin mentions that he dislikes people meddling with his carefully laid plans. I dunno bout you, but the wording here seems to be one of Jordans notorious subtle hints. Combine this with the other Moridin theories, and I think it concretes the evidence.

Rand's uncle?

Posted by Call_me_Tim on 28.06.03 16:41
namaste's comment on this I believe to be mistaken. The one who is referred to, by our heroines meeting in the T'a'R version of the Heart of the Stone, as resembling an older Rand, turns out to be Luc/Isam, NOT Moridin. This is well, since Luc IS Rand's uncle, Taringail's brother. Isam is Lan's cousin, who's mother wished to be named the King of Malkier and who was driven (or fled) into the Blight.

I am still quite convinced that the Wanderer is Moridin. He doesn't express distress at the idea of Rand dying, but would be inconvenienced by it. He has no problem with seeing Sammael wasted though, for a number of reasons. Punishing one who made a false claim to be Nae'blis, weeding out the eventual competition, even allowing Rand another victory against a Chosen to reduce his wariness all have value as reasons for Ishy to want Sammael dead. But as he says, he won't do the thing for Rand.

There really is no other choice for the wanderer's balefire stream than the TP. Rand can sense saidar being channeled, so there's no way it's a woman in disguise. I considered for a brief time the idea that it was a hallucination of LTT, but Lews Therin ALWAYS wants to kill a Forsaken, he surely wouldn't say what the wanderer did.

Wondering about the impact of Saidin making contact with the TP, especially in the pure and concentrated form of balefire, provokes many questions, but no answers for now.

Call me Tim

So true

Posted by Estel in Rivendell on 20.01.04 16:35
I just finished re-reading CoS, and trying to figure out who the wanderer was. I didn't give him much thought the first time. I agree that it is Moridin. His discription fits, and not many others would wear so much black(including hair)-which made a creepy image in my mind- but a guy named Death? Also what alternative could there be to the True Power? No one else we've met uses it frequently. Moridin makes the most sense.

Bookworms turn into butterflies
Crazy doesn't begin to cover it!!

What If...

Posted by haruka on 13.09.04 16:35
I think that this is a possible instance where the Creator actually a got off his but and intervened, temporarily inhabiting a human body...

I can think of no reason why Morrididin would reveal himself to Rand, and not Kill him... (he would be under no real restrictions, as he was/is Nae'Blis...

"I'm the D.O." "No I am" "KILL THEM!" "You can't possibly win!" *smirks* "Ya wanna make a bet???" *mutters* "stupid axe" "YOU CAN DO IT!"

It's Moridin. Duh

Posted by wingnut6 on 24.08.05 01:08
Moridin has his own reasons for wanting Rand to live to the Last Battle. Remember, he's playing both sides of the board and is controlling the Fischer (Rand).

And I have no idea what the deal with balefire touching, other than if you balefire balefire, wouldn't it make it like you never made balefire? I think that that's what's causing Rand's sickness,a nd it probably does the same to Moridin when he channels Saidin. That could be why he only channels the True Power (or Source, whichever the DO gives. I get them cornfussed sometimes).