Mat Could Not Be Hawkwing

Posted by Mashadarman on 19.01.01 00:00

I take back my theory that Mat Cauthon could still be Artur Hawkwing reborn. The first among the reasons is this: While rereading the Fires of Heaven I read a passage (pg. 394, very top) in which Mat (actually another man, but essentially Mat) remembers being taller than Rand while riding against Hawkwing. It certainly isn’t possible that Mat could be both Hawkwing and Hawkwing’s enemy. While he may share some of the same traits as Hawkwing, such as his not quite hate, but certainly no love, for Aes Sedai, Mat is not Hawkwing.

wotmania says: You changed your mind but I’ll play devil’s advocate... Those memories in Mat’s head are not lives he has lived, just memories he now possesses. So it is not as if he was living as two people at once. He may have been Hawkwing at the time, and been given some of the memories of a man who rode against him.


Comments

Galad Damodred seems to be Hawkwing

Posted by Jearom on 31.07.01 20:35
It has always been my assumption that if Hawkwing is back, it is in the form of Galad. (Hates Aes Sedia, very perfect, and something just not right)It seems there were other things that pointed me to this conclusion but I can't think of them now. Hasn't anyone else made this connection?

well...

Posted by Rathan on 07.08.01 23:48
Everyone else seems to think Galad is Jearom, (Which he is NOT! I think it's Gawyn) but I think you could very well be right.


ph34r!

WHAT?!?!

Posted by zaknafien on 11.10.01 15:27
Galad or Gawn as Jerom?!?!?!? Are u kidding me? We have a character named Lan in the WOT series, in case u forgot..im sorry, but he would OWN Galad and Gawn together worse than Mat did. Did u read what he did to that Toram Raitin dude in WH? Rand chases Fain out of the room then slashes his face and sees him running away when Lan comes out with a bloody sword..remember, Raitin was just as good as Rand, and i think that Rand is atleast equal to Galad or Gawn. When he was kidnapped, he killed one warder with his bare hands, then killed another before the Aes Sedia could even stop him!!! Warders are blademasters!!

Mat [or others] can't be Hawkwing Reborn

Posted by Raistlan on 21.12.01 04:43
When Mat blew the Horn, Hawkwing came, but the Dragon didn't because he was currently reborn as Rand. If Hawkwing had been reborn at that time, he wouldn't have come at Falme.

Raistlan


Raistlan
I think you may have me confused with someone else.

toram riatin

Posted by metallica-man2 on 02.01.02 12:25
was not as good as rand. rand fought him once, without using the oneness, and the only reason toram won is because rand got distracted by a cry for help.

sincerely,


the lover of light and wisdom
the all-seeing eye
the wandering wotmaniac

Comments about Lan and Toram

Posted by Matrimony Cauthon on 09.01.02 17:38
Interestingly,
Lan is portrayed to be one badass untouchable swordfighter, and he is probably the best active swordsman in WoT,
but I'm not so sure he is greatly above the rest of the competition. In New Spring, Lan defeats Ryne by a very small margin.
One comment Moraine made was that "It seems Ryne was wrong as well as a darkfriend. You were better than he."
Lan replied, "He was better. But he thought I was finished, with only one arm. He never understood. You surrender after you're dead."
Bukama was also at least as good or better than Lan with a sword.
I'm sure Elyas is probably at least as good,and most likely better, than Lan with the sword.
Lan was probably in his late twenties when New Spring happened, which means he probably had already reached come very close to his full potential.
The only other comment I can add is that Lan being bonded might have increased his ability at the swords.
So, with all these other people that just about match Lan, I don't think Lan is Jearom reborn, but I think that he probably is one of the heros from the horn reborn.
I was really surprised to see that Robert Jordan gave so little attention to the duel between Lan and Toram Riatin. It was almost as if Toram was an amateur beside Lan, based on the one sentence description by Jordan.
I think it is fun to consider how Lan ranks in comparison to other blademaster-types such as Valda, Elyas, Galad, Gawyn, Rand, and Shaidar Harnan.

Someone, mentioned something earlier about Rand and Toram fighting with swords twice, the first time being without the void. As I recall Rand only fought Toram once. Remember, Toram did not know Rand was the Dragon Reborn when he was fighting him. If Toram had fought Rand before, he would have known who Rand was the second time.


ADA- AlannaDawn Anonymous-- helping wotmaniacs recovering from their AlanndaDawn Addictions in a dynamic new 12-step program.

It cant be

Posted by Deranged Hermit on 10.04.02 07:59
know one can be Hawkwing, becaus he is still tied to the wheel. Or unless he decided to poses a body after Flame.



-I know i have bad spelling and punctuation you dont have to point it out to me-

One reason this is true

Posted by jcolony72 on 15.04.02 00:12
Hawkwing was among those brought back by the horn in TGH. If hawkwing was reborn in Mat then he could not have been summoned by the horn.

Mat is Aemon

Posted by Crazy ol Lews Therin on 09.07.02 16:59
Too many allusions have been made about it, and that would explain why Aemon wasn't there when Mat sounded the Horn of Valere.



I will try. Before surrendering to dreams or death, I will try.

exactly

Posted by Gandalfia on 25.07.02 04:05
in Glimmers one of the questions RJ gets is about Mat and RJ answers that it is just memories to fill up with. since he asked for that he wanted memories not his own memories.


Wielder of the HOlY Kizer
Warder of Andor
The sleepiest dude in the world



Not Hawkwing

Posted by SerenaSedai on 18.12.02 09:53
Teh mother of all reasons why Mat CANNOT be Hawkwing is:
when MAT blew the Horn of Valere HAWKWINg appeared.
Hawking would not be able to appear as a Hero of the horn while he's actually himslef blowing it in one of his reincarnations.
If Mat belw the Horn now, we would for instance neither see Gaidal, of whom we know he has been Reborn meanwhile (Birgitte states so) and Birgitte would be missing, too. Since she's there in the flesh!

So logic tells us a reborn Hero will not show up among the others, who are currently staying in T'A'R, when he's been reborn meanwhile.
Conclusion: Mat cannot be Hawkwing. NO WAY

This Theory is Correct...But For The Wrong Reason

Posted by bscuga on 08.03.04 13:59
This theory is correct in the fact that Mat is not Hawking reborn. However, the assumption used in coming to this conclusion is incorrect. Mat has memories that were given to him by the Snakes and Foxes. It is very possible for Mat to remember winning and losing the same battle. Mat has memories from multiple people and not just Hawking. The reason Mat can not be Hawking is b/c when he blew the Horn, Hawking rode out. Only heroes who have not been reborn ride out when the Horn is blown. You did not see LTT ride out b/c he has been reborn as Rand.

Lol

Posted by Almira on 23.05.05 14:26
I've always believed he wasn't Hawkwing solely on the fact that Mat HATES Hawkwing. He never once served the man in any of his memories, only fought him as enemies, and almost always lost to him. And he's always saying what a hard man Hawkwing was, and how difficult to get along with. It would make no sense if he ended up BEING Hawkwing.

My theory on Mat, Hawkwing and Ameon

Posted by Allien Hama on 07.04.06 08:55
Thats not true almira Mat recalls working in hawkwings court in one of his old memories anyway mat cant be the reason you give for matt not being Hawkwing was that hawkwing was among those brought back by the horn in TGH. If hawkwing was reborn in Mat then he could not have been summoned by the horn yes this makes sense but the reason ive always thought mat was Hawkwing was because the Alefin called him the King of Battles and the fact that mat has no love for Aes'Sedai however i hardly think theres support for him being Ameon either as Ameon loved and was married to an Aes'sedai, Eldrene ay Ellan ay Carlon and as weve heard matt state time and time gain in all the books andso far and I qoute "A man would have to be crazy to jump into bed with Aes'Sedai id rather jump into a pit of vipers atleast with the vipers id have half a chance"

SO heres my theory i think that mat is both Hawkwing and Ameon and neither i think he is mixture of the two heros because things in visions dreams etc etc always to point to both such as the red eagle of manetheren, and mats title the King of battles aswell as hawkwings golden hawk in flight and in the WOT Companion it states how hawkwing got his name.


by FY942 general Arthur Paendrag Tanreall was called Hawkwing his personal sigil was the Golden Hawk and the banner of Shandalle featured three golden hawks in flight but everyone agreed that the name came from the speed with which he could move his troops and several of the great generals of wot world such as gareth bryne Bashere have stated that mats army can move faster then any they had ever seen before. so the fact still remians if he isnt Hawkwing and he isnt ameon and im sure some of you will say he cant be both then who is he?


Far ayende far shain e far daishar
Birgitte Rules!!!