Perrin Another Artur Hawkwing?

Posted by Arian on 19.01.01 00:00

Okay, I'm NOT saying that Perrin is Hawkwing reborn, but that his role is leading up to something akin to Hawkwing's. Perrin has been linked to the role of the builder throughout the series, just as Rand has been linked with the role of Destroyer, and Mat of Preserver. Now from what I can interpret, this sounds like Perrin will have a large role in a post Tarmon Gai'don Randland. Being the builder it sounds like Perrin will have his hands full rebuilding and unifying the countries a la Hawkwing. To support this I'd like to point out an interesting parallel. As stated in The Path of Daggers, if the Queen of Saldaea does not bear any heirs, it will be the family of Bashere that will succeed. Perrin is married to the heir apparent of House Bashere and therefore is in a good position to attain the throne. Now I'd like to submit that Artur Hawkwing was from the region that is currently called Saldaea in Randland. The parallels in the appearance of Hawkwing, especially considering his bold nose, to that of a Saldaean are too strong to be anything else. That Hawkwing is linked to Saldaea would lend credence the the "Broken Crown" that was mentioned near the end of Lord of Chaos. The "Broken Crown" of course represents the Crown of the High King who unified all of Randland. I cannot help but disagree with those who say that Mat is Hawkwing reborn simply because of the fact that Perrin seems more linked to the High King than Mat. Even at the very beginning of the series in The Eye of the World, it is Perrin who visits the site where Hawkwing was to build his glorious city. Before I start rambling about Mat and his memories and whether he's someone reborn Ill end it here.

wotmania says: There is nothing wrong with a little rambling - I have been known to do it myself on occasion... I would tend to think that of our three ta'veren Perrin will have the largest role after Tarmon Gai'don; Rand will probably take a well-deserved vacation, and Mat does not like to work at all. A relaxed life after the Last Battle would be a good (and I think likely) end for both Rand and Mat. I do not think Perrin will unite all the nations, but I can see him rebuilding Manetheren. Also, I think Faile might not like your comment that Perrin is in a good position to attain the Saldaean throne...


Perrins past lives

Posted by BLACKEYES on 22.03.01 00:00
In The Dragon Reborn (pg 67 paperback) Perrin has a "dream" were he is wearing a gilded helmet worked like a lions head and some other armor. He feels as if it belonged on him. The axe was hanging at his side and a voice in his head, his own, told him he would choose over any other weapon and that he had carried it a thousand times, in a hundred battles.
Was he remembering past lives or was it Lanfear, who appeared to him right after this, trying to influence him into something. I havn't heard any thing about this on the Theory post before. Maybe I missed something.

Perin king of the world

Posted by Manwë on 29.06.01 21:30
Perin will rule randland after the Last(?)battle!!!!!!

better beeing dead than beeing old

Ummm.... No

Posted by shakester29 on 31.08.01 00:26
Artur Hawkwing was from Shandalle, in the middle of Randland. Nowhere close to Saldea. Look in the guide thing.


Posted by wannabe_myrddraal on 17.10.01 15:01
Read the title silly!

Perrin the KING

Posted by Spidey2213 on 26.10.01 12:53
RJ is setting up Perrin to rule a big chunk of the "Westlands" certainly. He is married to someone who is third in line to being a queen. I think Tenobia and Bashere will die, giving Faile(and thus Perrin) the throne. Remember, Perrin is also Alliandre's Liege Lord. In a country with a problem of succession, an unstable queen gives her titles to a ta'veren. Ghealdean is so his. I don't think he will get all of the world though, because unless Elayne, Rand, and their children die, there is someone to rule the east part. I do think Perrin could sweep over the western shores and return order to Arad Doman and Tarabon. I think Galad will rule over Amadicia, the Whitecloaks, and possibly Ebou Dar.

One other thing. I can completely understand Perrin raising Manetheren, but why throw Saldaea into the mix? Better if Faile had been cousin to the queen of Ghealdean. I hope we will get to see some development in this area soon

Perrin isn't at all like hawkwing

Posted by Maldais on 11.11.01 20:51
Elenye already has a prbelm with Perrin if he tries to take anymore contries then the three that are pretty much his I think he would end up with a dagger in his back.

Master of Wolves
King of Fire
Weilder of Balefire

Can't be Hawkwing

Posted by baba1305 on 14.12.01 13:50
While it is possible that Perrin could play a similar role to that Of Artur Hawkwing, I think it is just about impossible for either Him or Mat to be Hawkwing reborn. I say this because in the end of The Great Hunt, Mat sounds the HoV and all of the heroes, who are not currently alive in some incarnation, appear. They are led by Artur Hawkwing, so it seems unlikely that Perrin or Mat could have fought side by side with their own entity.

Good theory

Posted by jesus_online on 05.02.02 00:44
It's a good theory. I could very well see Perrin setting up the creation of a vast united country, and then his son, whoever that could be (Artur Hawkwing reborn perhaps,) coming along and bringing them all back together. My only qualm is that Hawkwing hasn't been dead long enough to be reborn, (or so i think), cuz it takes about 3000 years (Dragon took 3000, Gaidal Cain took about 3000, birgitte said that he had just been reborn). Perhaps being ta'veren is a familial trait. Who knows? But a good theory nonetheless.

your wrong

Posted by Geoff Alrich on 23.03.02 20:39
if you read the guide carfully you will disscover that auther hawkingwing was the king of a country that is north of present day Tear

get your facts straight please

Saldaea, and Ghealdan? Some Nation

Posted by joshuapaquin on 29.03.02 14:23
Saldaea, Manetheren, and Ghealdan are separated by natural barriers that would screw up any union. There's no road from Manetheren to Saldaea, but there's alot of land. Ghealdan faces a similar problem- we learn in tEotW that the forests south of Deven Ride are nasty in nature and uncrossable.

There's no way anyone could hold together a nation that is split so. Except for Rand (Cai, Tear, Ill) but he DOES have Travelling, after all.

Now, how about this for an idea. Rand unites the nations for TG, and dies in the Last Battle. PERRIN TAKES OVER.

Hawkwing was from where???

Posted by Kaen Al-Del on 02.05.02 08:30
Hawkwing was King of Shandelle, which ran from about where Aringill is now and covered the land between where the Rivers Erinen and Alguenya diverge, to an area just north of and according to the map, including the city of Cairhien. About the only way he could be farther from Saldea would be if he was from Mayene or Tear. That and the fact that Perrin led Hawkwing and the other heros into battle at Falme after Mat blew the horn.

Tai'Shar Preussen!

Der Ritter des Lichtes

Lord Protector of the Lady B.Alicia

He's the king of the future nations

Posted by Perryn on 03.08.02 15:39
Well,the first is excuse for my english.I'm spanish fan asi q voy a escribir en español lo siento si molesto a alguien.

Yo creo q el papel q perrin va a desempeñar después de la "última batalla" será el de unificar los restos q queden de las naciones después del nuevo desmembramiento,q creo q será como acabará el tar'mon'gaidon.

Saludos desde España del

Ghealdan was part of Manetheren

Posted by didionite on 05.09.02 13:21
The title says it all. When Perrin raises the Manetheren flag in Ghealdan in PoD, it is mentioned that Ghealdan had been part of Manetheren at its height, natural barriers aside.

I need a nap.

Do Look at the Guide.

Posted by Chel Vanin on 25.09.02 15:51
And I believe you will find that Manetheren, in addition to the far west of Andor, and Ghealdan, contained at least the southern have of Saldea. And...if Faile's family comes from southern I seem to remember they do. The "broken crown" could very well be the crown of Manetheren. And her family could well be the heirs.

So...with the Two Rivers and Ghealdan, he's just married the rest of Manetheren.

And wasn't there some prophecy that Manetheren would be vital to defeating old Shai'tan at the end of this age? And that's why Ishamael made such a point of crushing it during the Trolloc wars?

Perrin CANNOT be Artur Hawkwing

Posted by Daughter of the Sun on 05.10.02 23:51
Please people. Artur Hawkwing was called out of Ter'aran'rhoid by the Horn of Valere in the Great Hunt. Perrin was alive then. If Perrin were Artur Hawkwing reborn then Artur Hawkwing would NOT have come out of Ter'aran'rhoid because he wouldn't have been there. When Elayne and Nynaeve meet Birgitte, she tells them that Gaidin (her lover) has been reborn and is therefore NOT IN tel'aran'rhoid anymore, and so therefore would not be called out by the Horn of Valere, so therefore, Artur Hawkwing still lives in tel'aran'rhoid and is therefore NOT Perrin.

Am I a star beneathe the stairs?
Am I a ghost upon the stage?
Am I your anything?


Posted by rob123 on 12.10.02 17:19
We all know that Rand is Lews Therin reborn. Lews Therin was not called when the Horn was blown because RAND WAS AT FALME. If Perrin was Hawkwing reborn, Hawkwing would not have been called.

At least thats how I see it.


Posted by SerenaSedai on 08.01.03 03:59
Sounds interesting, though there's a mistake along the lines:
Saldea is not were Artur Hawkwing was born. He was born a prince of Sh-something (I think Shanell, Shonell or something similar but I don't have the Guide with me to check, so I won't pin my self done on that term), but that country was situated were in nowadays Randland is Cairhien, or rather part of Cairhien (central era sort of).
Apart from that: the Broken Crown has always been troubling me and somehow my mind insists on remembering it has some connection to "Hawkingian" times - don't ask why, it just feels like I remember that much..

Manetheren will nOT be raised now

Posted by jofraz on 09.06.03 14:05
It is a part of this 3rd Age- we will NOT see it again until the wheel has a full turning.

Daughter of the Sun-- Thank you, thank you, thank you. Why can`t the readers see the wheel as it is? I`ve just about given up on trying to enlighten them.

The Broken Crown is the one on Tenobia`s head, placed there by Bashere {GLIMMERS-CoT}


Egwene fanatic
"Elaida will be removed one way or another".
The seeds are being planted and some have sprouted.
The end is near

Rand seems more a Hawkwing to me.

Posted by terin on 18.06.04 17:51
Look at what Hawkwing did. He created an empire stretching from the waste to the ocean,and Rand is making one that strethes farther. But Hawkwing was not a builder, he is a destroyer. He set up his Empire like bowling pins, and they got knocked down. and this started larger and bloodyer wars then there were before. Rand IS the destroyer, but os was Hawkwing. Perin is not like hawkwing.
May you find dry feet and a warm fire.

not possible

Posted by Aeilman Rand on 08.05.05 20:18
He can't be Hawkwing for a simple reason. Hawkwing was fighting the Seanchan in Falme. If Perrin was hawkwing he would not have been there.