Interesting Note About Ishamael

Posted by Galahadred on 19.01.01 00:00

I was in church one morning, when I was paging through Genesis, and Icame upon this:

"And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou are with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."Genesis, 16:11-12 King James version
I realize of course that this verse doesn't have much to do with anything in the books, but it does pose an interesting idea about how Robert Jordan got the name and the personality, don't you think? Sorry, but I'm not done yet...

That verse might have given him the idea of Ishamael being only half trapped, "dwell in the presence of all his brethren" or even how he can enter dreams. But this is a theory of my own (it is kind of crazy but bear with me for a minute...)

What if Ishamael's soul is the son of the soul of the Dragon? That biblical story goes on to say how Abram, (later known as Abraham) fathered this son, Ishmael, but then threw him and the servant who was his mother out. He banished them because his wife Sarai (later known as Sarah) didn't want any attention being brought to Ishmael, only that of her son. This could definitely explain any conflict that Ishamael may have with Lews Therin. I may even go as far as to say the servant represents Lanfear, but that would be stretching it, don't you think?

As I am writing this, I think about the similarities between Abram and the Dragon (whether it be Lews Therin, or Rand al'Thor). They were all a general "messiah" figure, and had great lands under their control. Well, this is the end of my theory. Tell me what you think. I would love some input!

wotmania says: We all know that Jordan pulls his names and characters from a great number of sources. And you are certainly correct - the soul of Ishamael as the son of the soul of Lews Therin would certainly be an interesting twist to the story. Other than that, not much more to say on this one...



Posted by Moridin_2000 on 28.06.01 17:28
'Moridin...I am your father'


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Posted by Walruss on 10.09.01 09:19
What in the name of everything good and holy were you doing reading the Bible?

But the dogs you say they fed you to
Lay their muzzles in your lap
And the lions that they led you to
Lie down and take a nap



Posted by Jak on 10.10.01 17:59
You are my father?

say what????????

Posted by Deranged Hermit on 05.04.02 12:03
I dint meen to be disrespectful or anything but light, the Bible makes a Dr. Suess book seem like an easy read

-I know i have bad spelling and punctuation you dont have to point it out to me-


Posted by Deranged Hermit on 05.04.02 12:06
look above, i know i have bad spelling but i ment DONT not DINT

-I know i have bad spelling and punctuation you dont have to point it out to me-

Following through

Posted by Asha man EB on 18.09.02 18:13
Following through with your theory to modern day, we see the crux or the beginnings of the stife between the Muslim religion and Christianity. Hummm - now what does that say about RJ's thinking. Or may it just express my own slant on current day politics. You see that Ishy was an illegitimate son (as we view things) and was cast out as you note. Muslims see that the Ishmael character as the true son and follow his descendents. While Christians would argue that he is not the "true" son of Abraham.

following through what Asha man EB said...

Posted by LyLa on 13.07.03 05:14
If the muslims follow Ishmael, and Ishamael follow the DO, then the muslims follow the DO...
now seriosly:
Abraham can't be something like LTT or Rand, becouse in the Bible, when Abraham is mentioned, he's always mentioned with his son and grandson - Isaac and Jacob (Ytzhak and Yaakob)

an angel reborn

there's another Ishmael

Posted by dara sedai on 30.08.03 01:54
The narrator of that book "Moby Dick" is also named Ishmael. But that's all I know. I never wanted to read that book, and I forget what the Cliff's Notes said.

I recognized the similarity between the two names right away, but I am puzzled as to why RJ named a Forsaken Ishamael... the Ishmael in the Bible is a wanderer, or an outcast, but not at all evil, as far as I know.

Shall we go shopping for a dress? Or will it be bare breasts and ankles, all the way? -- Elizabeth Swann


Posted by Mythical Mystic dRagon on 05.02.04 16:41
2 religious groups actually spread from abraham, Jews and christians...which could be like the aiel and the tinkers...(hmmm?)

Re: Also

Posted by Jak_O_The_Shadows on 30.03.06 18:52
Oddly enough the Jew-Christian/Tinker-Aiel connects holds up - at least on a superficial level - when scrutinized. Like the Tinkers, Jews hold to an ancient and somewhat marginalized religious belief, and have not had a homeland to call their own (until recently some would say, but lets not open up that can of worms). They have been persecuted and misunderstood historically, just as the Tinkers have in WoT. Like the Aiel who forsoke the 'way of the leaf', Christians were initially followers of Judaism - before St Paul's conversions among the gentiles - who abandoned it for a new belief system. This system was much less demanding in many ways, and the Christians like the Aiel grew and strengthed, marginalizing their own progenitors. As I already stated, this is a horribly superficial and flawed hypothesis, but it does fit in many ways. The first glaring flaw that occurs to me is that Christianity quickly became a dominant force in world affairs - taking only a few centuries to gain dominance - while it took the Aiel much longer to emerge as a military power, and their cultural and social conventions never enjoyed the widespread power of those of Christianity.

Back on the Ishmael topic, I must add that this is not the only pseudo-Hebrew name in the series. A number of the Forsaken and other characters also have distinctly ancient-Semitic names.

"Honk if your Demandred... Please!"