Where is Ishamael?

Posted by Ben Graham on 21.01.01 00:00

There are several places that Ishamael could be right now - Moridin? Taim? It seems fairly obvious he’s back, as Aginor and Balthamel are as well (Osan’gar and Aran’gar), but what I want to know is if Ishamael really did escape the Bore earlier than the rest of the Foresaken, then what other plans did he set into motion that we aren’t aware of? The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time says he was free in 983 if not earlier (and that his capture by the Bore was only partial). What if Ishamael was responsible for Mazrim Taim? Taim had been channeling for fifteen years before he came to Rand, (which means he started in about 983-984). Another option is that he is Taim. Lews Therin always goes crazy around Taim, screaming, "Kill him, kill him now." Remember the beginning of The Eye of the World? It was Ishamael that revealed to an insane Lews Therin what he had done. Lews Therin had ample reason to hate Ishamael.

wotmania says: I certainly agree that Ishamael is back. He has been the foremost servant of the Shadow for thousands of years; I think it likely the Great Lord would give him another shot at life. If Ishamael is back, he is most likely Moridin. As to whether or not he has a relationship with Taim... That would be interesting - Taim has not been overcome by the taint because he is sworn to the Shadow.



Posted by Rathan on 20.06.01 04:17
Great idea. I never really thought of Taim.



Posted by drgnrbrn316 on 24.10.01 10:57
Ishamael is Moridin. RJ says as much in Winter's Heart if not sooner.


Posted by Lord Bravo on 10.04.02 18:19
The darkfriend Ashaman were instructed not to allow anyone to find out their plans about killing Rand. They also had orders form Taim to kill him, but Taim especially was not supposed to know the darkfriend plans. I think that this points away from Taim being Ishamael, but perhaps the person who gave the ashaman their orders did not know that Ishamael was Taim, if he is Taim.
Book 8, one of the ashaman think it, the one killed by Fain's dagger in the street.

Wotmania Writers' Guild

I think

Posted by Buazag on 28.04.03 12:22
that one problem that we as readers and moreso as posters of various theories we have is this. We assume to readily that all the characters of the shadow MUST have some secret identity to puzzle out.

In many cases this is true...Annath(Semirhage), Dashiva(osan'gar..I think...always get the 2 gars mixed up when not actually looking at the book =p), Mesaana(someone in the tower as yet unidentified) Halima(the other Gar) The list goes on as many of the followers of the dark One have found ways to disguise themselves and infiltrate the followers of the light.

Not ALL of them have though. Some of the Forsaken are seemingly content with working through proxies and have maintained their own identities at least for the most part. Ishamael in particular I think...is one os these. Apart from appearing as Baalzamon and "The watcher" both of which are not really hidden identities, he has been only himself. Despite various theories that link him to Taim I feel that not only is Ishy/Moridin NOT him...but that Taim is just himself as well. No forsaken masqerading as Taim...he is merely a Darkfriend albeit a fairly powerful one.

There are any number of hidden sub plots, mysteries and intrigues buried in the details of this series. In the course of figuring some of them out, either ahead of time by piecing together various clues or simply because eventually Jordan exposes things, we come to always expect there to be surprises. Despite the fact that there ARE many surprises....some things actually are as they appear. In my opinion...Taim is one of those things.

As with any other poster here....I could be wrong and in this case I didn't even bother to dig through the books looking for quotes or specific evidence to back myself up. For all I know it will become obvious in the next book that Taim is actually the real father of Rand and it has been his constant working with the power that has slowed him thereby disguising his age. The fact that he is Rand's father means that first prophesy wasn't fulfilled and it comes out that in fact the real Dragon Reborn is Moridin and he has already been turned to the Shadow. Of course the odds on this being true are about as good as the cubs winning the world series this year =D

Ishamael was never sealed.

Posted by Synile on 13.06.03 13:53
Lews Therin goes insane after the Bore is sealed, and he has his encounter with Ishamael after he has went insane, if we remember. He was never sealed.

Posted by sabin on 18.02.05 19:22
this is good, and i think i finally found someone i can think of as who taim is.

I think some posters are confused. (correct me if im wrong, but) the theory is not saying ishy is taim, as in IS taim, but ishy is masked as taim.