Yet Another Theory About Why Olver Is Gaidal Cain

Posted by Myrian on 21.01.01 00:00

I'm not going to mention all the evidence that proves, to me at least, that Olver is really Gaidal Cain. Most of it has already been mentioned in this site, after all. But one thing I did notice was that in Lord of Chaos, after meeting Birgitte, there was some animosity on Olver's part. Mat thought it was because Birgitte and Aviendha were friends, and Olver hated Aviendha because the Aiel killed his dad. However, I think there's another reason. Am I the only one who remembers a time in Tel'aran'rhiod , when Birgitte told Nynaeve that Gaidal almost always hated her in the beginning? Combine that things like the fact that Olver always hangs around Mat (the Hornsounder), and Birgitte's deep feelings for the ugly boy, and there you go! Olver=Gaidal Cain.

I also want to say that I think this is a great site, and all of the posted theories are fascinating. I hope everyone keeps up the good work.

wotmania says: A lot of people write to tell me the Theory Post is their favorite part of the site. I know I love to work on the Theory Post - it is extremely fun reading others’ theories. As for the theory - I cannot recall for certain a quote from Birgitte saying Gaidal usually disliked her at first. But that could be because I have worked on the site way too much this weekend, and my brain is starting to fall apart on me.


Comments

Thats right

Posted by alErling on 12.11.01 13:24
I also remember Birgitte stating that he(Gaidal) always hated her in the beginning.
One thing I think will be interesting is the fact that now Birgitte was spun out as an adult when Gaidal is a boy, while usually she was spun out a little while after him.

Looking forward to book 10....

I don't think so...

Posted by Daemon on 31.01.02 16:38
If you'll remember it was only a short time before Brigitte was torn out of Tel'aran'rhiod that Gaidal Cain was spun out. Now by counting and using logic Gaidal Cain would have to be no older than two years old. So through this logic Olver can't possibly be Gaidal Cain.

Olver-Gaidal... why I don't like it, and who I choose.

Posted by Khnopff on 07.04.02 19:06
I have read some of the posts concerning this connection, and I have to admit, it does make one stop and think. However, Jordan has a tendency to 'pair' up his main characters in relatively romantic ways. The Olver-Gaidal connection presents several obvious problems to how Jordan runs his series:

1) Gaidal Cain is a hero for the wheel, and thus heroes are spun out when they are most needed. However, unless Olver sacrifices himself in order to save Birgitte, I do not see how he could mature in enough time to take part in the events that are happening. Would Gaidal Cain be spun out and mature as a 8 yr. old boy while the Dragon Reborn is running loose in the world? I do not think Jordan plans on stretching Rand's battle out until Olver grows up to 'fulfill' his destiny as the wheel would demand of Gaidal Cain. That is a point against Olver

2) Seeing as how Jordan is following a rather romantic view of attachments, pairing up main and sub-main characters, and since the Birgitte-Gaidal connection is one of the strongest romantic histories of the wheel, WHY would Jordan make it so that Birgitte would look towards Gaidal as a mother to a son, rather than promoting the love affair? Again, it would take the story to stretch until many years, for Olver to mature a LITTLE at least, before Jordan could even conceivably arrange the two as 'romantically' involved. Birgitte has suffered considerably enough as it is, and despite Moggy's warning about 'weeping for eternity' I still doubt Jordan fulfilling that prophecy, especially for someone so beloved and held in awe. Another point against Olver.

3) Jordan likes to play against type, for the most part. With some characters, such as Elayne and Rand, their physical attraction is meant to convey historical connection (Rand/Lews and Elayne/what's-her-name-I-forget) but Mat and Tuon are mismatched, so are Perrin and Faile, Siuan and Gareth, even Rand and Min (Min, earlier, states that the sheepherder is not her type.) So not every romantic attachment follows 'historical' precedence. Again, one has to take Birgitte's behavior into context. Her memories of Gaidal Cain are of an 'ugly' man, so she finds ugly men attractive. Olver, because he is so ugly, reminds her of Gaidal, thus she has an attachment to him. This does not indicate that Olver is Gaidal, just that he REMINDS her of Gaidal. Again, nothing conclusive.

4) For a long time, I had a different theory in mind. Part of it comes into play because of Jordan playing character's against type. Part of it is because Gaidal is so renowed for his swordwork. I find it hard pressed to see Olver picking up a sword, although it is not unlikely. My theory, based upon the opposite expectation theory, revolves around Galad. As with most theories, the biggest stumbling block is to get past the 'born again' dating, along with Gaidal's appearance at Falme. I find it quite believeable that Gaidal can occupy a body while 'awake' and roam Telarhiond while asleep. However, I cannot find much evidence to state whether or not Birgitte has ever met Galad. Given the understanding that the two would 'recognise' each other, I honestly have to state that I dont think Bigitte has met Gaidal yet.

5) Galad intrigues me more as Gaidal for a number of other reasons. The name proximity is quite interesting, for one. The second is Galad's insistence on 'following the rules' no matter who it hurts (remember Gaidal cautioning Birgitte about breaking the rules?) Third, Galad is incredibly talented when it comes to the sword, and whose only defeat, so far, has come at the hands of Mat. Fourth, let us not take Birgitte's assesement of Gaidal too seriously. Birgitte is the 'flighty' one, since she is the one who took risks to help out Nyaeve, therefore she provides the adventure to Gaidal's caution, and he provides stability to support her flights of fancy. Gaidal, in addition, sounds alot like Lan, a stuffy stodgy guy whose rough exterior is only breached by a woman he loves. Galad, so far as it is known, loves no one, and only his sister can make him go against his 'better judgement' (he procured a ship for her in Ebou Dar or Tanchico, I forget which, at the cost of fighting the Prophet.) Galad, up to this point, however talented he is with a sword, is otherwise quite robotic and unemotional. And, seeing how handsome he is, would prove QUITE a blow to Birgitte, much in the same way Tuon went against Mat's expectations.

Birgitte would play quite nicely against the stodgy Galad, and so far, that is my best guess. And with Elayne back in Camelyn, if Gawyn is forced, or chooses, to go with Egewyn as her Warder, he cannot be in both places. Thus, Galad, and Birgitte, will be co-captains of the Sword. And, I dont know about anyone else, but the thought of Birgitte and Galad leading my army would make me feel ALOT better, since Galad is sooo much better than Gawayn anyway. BIG point for Galad.

I just doubt it!

Posted by Abby on 16.04.02 18:01
I also remember Birgitte saying that Gaidal Cain disliked her at first. And yes, Olver fits the bill.

BUT there is that little age problem! Although we can debate how time travel may be possible through tel'aran'rhiod (for instance, the theory of how Lanfear may have traveled through time to kill Asmodean), I respect RJ's great love of hinting and foreshadowing. He's not the type of writer who would throw "IT WAS TIME TRAVEL!" at the readers without even a hint of it beforehand.

Birgitte does need a partner, which means she needs Gaidal Cain. And I recall her saying (after being ripped out of the Wheel) that she hadn't seen Gaidal Cain in awhile. This indicates that he was born already. I am tempted to think "Uno."

Galad as Gaidal? Nay

Posted by Soy Kitten on 19.04.02 05:18
Khnopff made a number of points above as to why he thinks Gaidal Cain may be Galad. I would simply like to pick apart the few I find fallable.

First: Galad fights with a sword. Gaidal Cain fights with two swords. Always. There is a huge difference there, and one can really not be interchanged with the other.

Second: Gaidal is always ugly. While it may be an amusing twist to see him end up as a pretty boy this time, it seems that the heroes retain certain characteristics throughout all of their lives, and this is one of Gaidal's.

Third: Galad loves Egwene, or at the very least says he does. He does not love no one but his sister.

Fourth: I don't buy Gaidal inhabiting the body of Galad while awake and wandering the world of dreams while asleep. First of all, Birgette has been through this many times before; I'm sure she would have mentioned if, after being spun out, she still was in the dream world for a time. She seems to know right about when Gaidal has been spun out, and mentions it as being when she can no longer find him in the world of dreams.

Five: When Birgette notices that Gaidal is gone, she says something to the effect of "He is out there in the world now, as a baby or a young boy." Again, she knows how this works, and she never mentions the possibility that he could be in a full grown body. While some may think this quote allows for him to be Olver, I think you would have to stretch it a lot for it to apply for to a man of 20 or so.

Side points: Birgette has indeed never met Galad.

Olver is Cain? maybe...

Posted by Luc and Isam on 23.04.02 18:25
Chapter 52 of Shadow Rising, Birgitte says of Cain, "He is usually born well before me--so I know my time approaches again when I cannot find him--and I usually hate him at first sight in the flesh." In her last life, Lanfear promised "to make me weep alone for as long as the Wheel turns." Then in Fires of Heaven, Chapter 14, when Birgitte says that Gaidal Cain has been spun out by the Wheel, there's a paragraph about how that means that he's an infant in the real world, and Birgitte says she could be spun out in days, weeks, or years. There is no indication at all that Gaidal could have been born 10 years before he was spun out...so I don't think he could be Olver based on the time difference. Otherwise I think Jordan would have foreshadowed it at least a little.

Yes

Posted by alLan 5150 on 17.06.07 13:23
"1) Gaidal Cain is a hero for the wheel, and thus heroes are spun out when they are most needed. However, unless Olver sacrifices himself in order to save Birgitte, I do not see how he could mature in enough time to take part in the events that are happening. Would Gaidal Cain be spun out and mature as a 8 yr. old boy while the Dragon Reborn is running loose in the world? I do not think Jordan plans on stretching Rand's battle out until Olver grows up to 'fulfill' his destiny as the wheel would demand of Gaidal Cain. That is a point against Olver"

I think this is irrelevant because Birgitte has often mentioned that herself and Gaidal played a part in the founding of the White Tower. Olver is being raised by the Band, and being so close to Matt will probably develop strong leadership qualities.

Gaidal being well trained in the sword has also been mentioned. Olver is 9 years old in KoD, and is growing up with soldiers for "uncles". To think that he would never touch a sword is slightly ludacris