Oath Rod Not the Key to Ageless Appearance

Posted by Guaire Amalasan on 21.01.01 00:00

I've always wondered why it is that the Aes Sedai have the ageless appearance that doesn't seem to affect Wise Ones, the Kin, or the Windfinders. I thought on it long and hard until I found out about this website and I read the theory about the Oath Rod causing the agelessness. I thought this was the perfect answer since the Aes Sedai, post-breaking, don't really know what the intended purpose of any ter'angreal was and they might have been misusing it in some way that caused that side effect to develop with time. Happy with the answer I put the question out of my head. And then it happened and that theory was killed forever. While rereading The Dragon Reborn I came upon the disproving evidence. In Chapter 22 Egwene is taking the test to become Accepted. During the third test she is in a possible future where she is the Amyrlin Seat... The third test begins... "Egwene stared into the standing mirror, and was not sure whether she was more surprised by THE AGELESS SMOOTHNESS of her face or the striped stole that hung around her neck. The stole of the Amyrlin Seat." And later in that same test Egwene said to her Keeper "I never held the Oath Rod." This unfortunately shows that the Oath Rod theory is false and another solution must be found.

wotmania says: Shoot... This does sort of disprove that whole theory... And there is a quote somewhere about Amys having young features despite her white hair... But then why the heck do the Kin not get the ageless look? Maybe they do not work with the Power enough, or something... One of these days I will stop putting three period after so many of my sentences. But not today...


Comments

Not quite

Posted by Murgen on 29.03.01 00:00
This has been argued before, but I'll restate it here.
The ter'angreal that novices walk through when they become Accepted uses Tel'Aran'Rhiod in some fasion. This is proven by Egwene's third test in it, when there was a 'resonance' between the ter'angreal and her ring ter'angreal that allows access to T'A'R. The Aes Sedai said that the resonance was a type that occurs when two ter'angreal that perform similar functions are used in close proximity. Therefore, the testing ter'angreal is an entrance to a piece of T'A'R that is shaped by both the ter'angreal and whoever walks through. Now, in T'A'R things are shaped by the mind. Egwene believed that Aes Sedai had an ageless appearance, which she thought is brought about by using the One Power, so she DID have the ageless appearance. You'll also remember that in her test, she didn't know her Keeper had been stilled, when any Aes Sedai would be able to determine that. She just didn't know how, so it wasn't taken into account.

Agree with rebuttal but...

Posted by apk5 on 03.04.01 00:00
I agree that that the oath rod does give the ageless look but using the Accepted test for Egw is using a double standard for it though. To say that she did not know about the oath rod causing agelessness and that stilling does not effect that look does not make sense. This is because during her test she was also almost subverted by the 13 AS and 13 Myd and she did not know about that until she was out and asked about it.

......

Posted by The_Naeblis on 16.06.01 12:44
i've not read whole of the text...sorry but no time...
but i've read the start with the title...

i think that its right...
the Rod is not the key...
chaneling is!!!
none of the forsaken has it!
LTT doesn't have ageless face!
and somewhere (don't reamember where sorry...) it is said that u need 2 channel enough 2 get the ageless face...
seanchans live longer cause they DON'T channel!
damanes may live the same but their ability must be a lot stronger then the suldams...
so basically i think htat its the amount of chaneling that counts...
i wonder how much did rand and nynaeve waste while cleaning the source...


A very very wise man once sai "i dunno go ask a woman!'

life without WoT is like a broken pencel!
POINTLESS!

am i here
maybe i'm there
i can be everywhere!
but here, where here is for thy
I sure not
but I might be there...

use thy brai

Wrong arguments...

Posted by frbaril on 14.08.01 17:03
Why would the AS channel so MUCH more than the Aiel or Seanchans or those from the Age of Legends? This does not make sense. If the AS agelesness is not caused by the Oath Rod, it is certainly not caused only by chaneling but by something else like the way the AS weave the flows. I think, however, that there is enough evidence to point to the Oath Rod and dismiss other theories.


--

Bane of the Colorfull One

if not the oath rod

Posted by darkeye on 27.04.02 12:05
what else do the aes sedi share with the wise ones? i thought about it and maybe the clue was given by the first poster. the rings the acceped step through. perhaps the rings are similar to the ones the wise ones step through in reuhaiden please for give the spelling and the generalness but i have no books with me nor have i memorzed them.

i think the oath rod is what shortens the life of the aes sedi which may lead to interesting conclusions about causdene living for so long.

just an idea


patiently waiting for October 2009

maybe this? Perhaps?

Posted by Senkei on 28.04.02 22:47
Maybe it's the Great Serpent Ring. Sedai are the only channelers who wear it, yes? Maybe it holds this property...or maybe they're ter'angeral...maybe?


I am the Lone Mantis of the Apocalypse! Think of me when you look into the night sky!

Accepted test not real

Posted by Croaker on 06.05.02 00:35
The appearance of her face would be what she expected it to be because she didn't know at that time. Other books seem to have almost said that the oath rod is shortening their lives and if that's the only difference between WOs and Kin and AS that must be what is causing the ageless look.

I don't think there's been even a hint that it might be something else causing the ageless look.

It seems like the Ter'angreal for the Accepted test is a little like Tel'aran'roid (sp?). It uses your mind to test your fears.


Jedi Knight
Member of the WoT-Jedi Council

My First Duty is to the Truth
I am Jack's complete lack of Surprise

wrong

Posted by caraman on 28.05.02 09:22
dont have time to waste on you people. Egwene says the differance between AS and others are the three oaths this means that (if you spell it out for some people) to remain amylin she will have to swear the oaths,when she takes the tower back which is jordans way of saying Egwenes going to win or at least get her hands on the rod and remain amyrlin achieving the ageless look. thou art all dumbasses

"you say we should make our swords into ploughshares. well i say to you what good is a ploughshare when trollocs roam the fields"

Caraman Gaiden

The journeyman battle brother

regarding Amys

Posted by VitaPup on 06.06.02 15:02
In TSR, when Rand enters Cold Rock Hold, he comments on how Amys looks younger than she should but lacks the agelessness that aes sedai have. So

RJ Made a Mistake?!? :::gasp:::

Posted by Mahdi Raen on 07.08.02 15:35
There have been several times throughout the series when they have nearly come right out and said that the Oath Rod is the key (e.g. all of those things that other people said)...and then...There have been several times throughout the series when they have nearly come right out and said that the Oath Rod is NOT the key (e.g. the Accepted Test and the 80 year old accepted with an ageless face)

The Accepted Ter'angreal

Posted by Merrie on 09.09.02 10:05
There's only one flaw in your theory proving that the oath rods don't provide the agelessness Aes Sedai get. We don't know exactly how the ter'angreal works, whether it's a portal into an alternative weaving or whether it's a portal into the World of Dreams, which feeds off of the mind of the person being "tested".

Egwene couldn't have known that users of the One Power didn't achieve an ageless look unless associated with the White Tower, which requries Accepted raised to the shawl to swear on the Oath Rod. So, the ter'angreal could be feeding off of Egwene's past experiences with users of the One Power. So it's possible that this passage doesn't disprove the theory that agelessness is caused by use of the Oath Rod...

I thought this was covered...

Posted by oldmanfish on 11.11.02 18:32
Of course it's the Oath Rod. It causes the ageless look and the shorter lifespan. Semirhage said it. The Sniffers figured it out.
Amys always had white hair. She just looks young.
The 80 year old accepted didn't have the ageless face. She just looked young. That was the whole point of the conversation about her.
Damane, Kin, AOL channellers and Wise Ones age slowly.
Aol channelling criminals, and modern Aes Sedai, who "bind themselves like criminals" (...with a BINDER, aka OATH ROD) live shorter lives and are marked with the ageless look.
It's all straight out of the books. Who is still fighting it?


"You seem a decent fellow... I'd hate to kill you."

Wrong...

Posted by Ashaman Narishma on 04.01.03 18:06
I believe that the Ter'angreal that the novices use to test to become Accepted, leads to a form of the dreamworld( i dont want to type the T word), and i think that what the persn believes when they walk in it will become reality, it just happens to be your worst nightmare because when the sisters tested it,some died and some had been burned out, so sure, they were scared when testing it and their fears came true. The reason that Egwene went in and had the face without the oath rod was because she believed that the face came from the use of the power, because so many sisters had told her that. If they had said that the when you were raised to a sister that you were branded on the right ass cheek with the ancient Aes Sedai symbol, egwene would have been there with a black and white symbol burned on her right ass cheek.
Just a little bit for all of you to chew on.


Disney Monkey extraordinaire!

Have any of you read the books?

Posted by Dreamwanderer on 19.01.03 02:04
One of the times where RJ describes taking an oath on a rod of dominion, is where Galina, the captive Aes Sedai of Sevanna has to swear to obey Sevanna on an oath rod. And I'm quoting: "Galina felt the oath settle on her, as if she suddenly wore a garment that covered her far too tightly from her scalp to the soles of her feet." And to me that would explain why it gives them the ageless look, because the oath is keeping their skin tight on their faces, as it covers their entire body, but their face is where you can really tell the difference. And that could also be why newer Aes Sedai don't have the ageless look, it hasn't been long enough for the skin on their face to adjust to the oath. And besides, why would channeling the Power have anything to do with how your face appeared? It's not like they're channeling into their face to make it ageless, even if it's possible. Well, I suppose they could, but then the new Aes Sedai should aquire the look alot faster. So I would have to disagree with this theory.


"There are only two things that are infinite: The universe, and the stupidity of humans."
-Albert Einstein

I disagree

Posted by RoGuEmOnKeY on 10.02.03 21:58
if the test reflects the testees greatest fears, could it not then also reflect what they believe? I would contest that Egwene saw the ageless face in the mirror because she believed that it was simply part of being Aes Sedai, and had no reason to connect it with the Oath Rod.


They ran through the trees, and they ran through the forests,
They ran through the bushes where the beavers wouldn't go.
They ran so fast they forgot to take their culture,
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico...o...o
-The War of 1812

Quote about the oldest Accepted

Posted by jahar-narishma on 31.12.04 00:12
OK, this quote is from aCoS, The Kin, pages 450 and 451

This is from Nynaeves point of view, it starts off with Elayne talking to Nynaeve.

"Forget clothes for one moment, Nynaeve. Who is the oldest Accepted you remember?"
She gave Elayne a very level look. The woman made it sound as if she never thought of anything else! And she had too listened. Sometimes. "Elin Warrel, I think. She's about my age, I think. (some clothey stuff which is really out of place considering Nynaeve...)
Elayne barked such a laugh that Nynaeve wondered whether she had spoken aloud. Coloring fiercly, she tried to explain - she was sure she could, by Bel Tine = but the other woman gave her no opportunity for a word. "Elin's sister came to visist her just before you first arrived at the Tower, Nynaeve. Her younger sister. The woman had grey hair. Well, some of it was. She must have been over forty, Nynaeve.
Elin Warrel was past forty? But...! "What are you saying, Elayne?"
No one was close enough to listen, and no one seemed to be giving them a second glance except the hopeful seamstress, but Elayne lowered her voice to a whisper. "We slow, Nynaeve. Somewhere between twenty and twenty-five, we begin aging more slowly. How much depends upon how strong we are, but when doesn't. Takima said she thought it was the beginning of the ageless look, though I don't think anyone has ever reached that until they've worn the shall at least a year or two, sometimes five or more. Think. You know any sister with gray hair is old, even if you aren't supposed to mention it. So if Reanne slowed, and she must have, how old is she?"


Sorry for that amazingly long quote, and i even cut quite a boring bit out, but it says it there. There is an Accepted - who has thus gone through the rings - who appears about Nynaeve's age even although she has a younger sister with gray hair who is at least forty. Elayne then tells us why, and actually says that to her knowledge noone has obtained that ageless face until they have worn the shawl and therefore - until Egwene, Theodrin, Faolain, Nynaeve and Elayne herself - held the Oath Rod and sworn the Three Oaths.

Just my little piece of information and opinion.

Something I missed

Posted by jahar-narishma on 31.12.04 00:19
Also, Taim and Logain dont have the ageless face and theyve channeled too. Rand doesn't either. And, as has been stated before, neither do the Wise Ones, nor the Windfinders, nor the Kin. Remember, some of the Kin were accepted who ran away, and as far as we can tell, none of them had the ageless features.

Well, my rant is done....

Ignorance

Posted by Aeilman Rand on 01.05.05 01:58
Egwene didn't know what caused the agelessness. The ter'angreal gave her fears but not truth. The only reason she saw the agelessness was because she thought that all Aes Sedai had it.

Rod=Agelessness

Posted by The Beggar on 15.11.07 13:08
From quotes that others have posted it's obvious that the rod causes the ageless look. It is also obvious to ME, at least, that the Accepted Rings contain more than knowledge from the person entering, i.e. the 13 Myrdaal quote. There are still other possiblities you just have to think hard. She could have been using the Mask of Mirrors and had tied off an inverted weave.

What if it is something else entirely?

Posted by Amaylisa on 09.04.08 03:59
I think it may have something to do with the way in which they deside who has seniority.

In the kin, the oldest person is the leader. There it is your years rather than your strength in the power that desides your position in the organisation. You should also note that they do not have a problem with dicusing their age.

Aes Sedai decide seniority by strength in the power. It does not matter how old one is or how long they have worn the shawl, if someone else is stronger in the power, they are automatically the leader. It is also unheard of to ask an Aes Sedai her age, this is something that knowbody knows, thus they are ageless.

Novices and Accepted note that they begin to slow, as all channelers does, but they only take on the ageless look one they have worn the shawl for a period of time, and have thus been exposed to the "ageless" factor of Aes Sedai society for a while.

Well, that's what I think.